tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6999280.post6497784202389136528..comments2023-08-02T02:26:21.785-07:00Comments on Anti Anti-Mormons: McCraney vs. Ed: Artistic score 8, technical score 1Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6999280.post-88658630730455057042009-08-19T11:45:09.239-07:002009-08-19T11:45:09.239-07:00Anonymous said:
"Please list all the lies an...Anonymous said:<br /><br />"Please list all the lies and incorrect things Shawn says about the LDS church on Heart of the Matter."<br /><br />Your making this too easy. I'll give you one example, the "Kinderhook plates". You'll have to look at sites beyond UTLM to find the truth. Dig deep and you'll find out what Shawn claims to be the truth is only half true, the other half is anti-Mormon BS.<br /><br />Make no mistake: in Shawn's heart of hearts he would like nothing more than to see the LDS church fall and I'm sure he'll spend the rest of his life trying.<br /><br />MDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6999280.post-59593990049559602292009-08-19T07:09:24.264-07:002009-08-19T07:09:24.264-07:00Please list all the lies and incorrect things Shaw...Please list all the lies and incorrect things Shawn says about the LDS church on Heart of the Matter.<br /><br />When I look up what he says it is correct. I have been a faithful member for 46 years so I know what is actually taught and have seen it morph over the years.<br /><br />A list of his lies would go a long way to show he is not correct.<br /><br />BTW Guys like ED and Don who call into Heart of the Matter are an embarrassment to the church and make us look like stupid Utah Hillbillies. <br /><br />BK Packer claims the "Truth is not always useful" <br /><br />That statement alone means we are being mislead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6999280.post-15347027923504509152009-08-08T13:59:51.399-07:002009-08-08T13:59:51.399-07:00People can't create out of nothing. God on the...People can't create out of nothing. God on the other hand, is more than capable of doing more than what we can see or do or even imagine.<br /><br />Reason only tells you that spirits being created ex nihilo can be destroyed because that is using the parameters you have set. If you want to go down that road then you could say that what is created from pre-existing material can be destroyed, because it is plain to see that that is what is happening all around us.<br /><br />Gnostics did not particularly care for the concept of creation ex nihilo as you will see if you check the reference from the previous comment. However, if that is how you want to play it then fine. Mormons call Joseph Smith a prophet, and so do those blood atonement polygamists. Does that mean that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, because some people with really bad theology believe the same thing as mainline Mormons?<br /><br />It's true, Clement and Justin were in favor of creation out of pre-existent material. Just because some notable people hold to a certain doctrine doesn't make it true. Or biblical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6999280.post-59762521317599749792009-08-06T15:22:32.800-07:002009-08-06T15:22:32.800-07:00One can not create without first having materials....One can not create without first having materials. <br />Such is plain to see. Bara can mean to organize.<br /><br />If our spirits could be created and come into being out of nothing, then reason would tell us that they could be destroyed and cease to exist as well. <br />Scripture, and that includes biblical scripture as well, tells us otherwise. <br /><br />Creation ex- nihilo was first put forth by the Gnostics, considered a heretical sect of Christianity.<br /><br />Clement of Alexandria and Justin Martyr, among the earliest of Christians, held to the concept of pre-existent matter.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960519151863517265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6999280.post-43619511892747552522009-08-02T13:50:06.282-07:002009-08-02T13:50:06.282-07:00Thank you for your thoughts on this one, now if yo...Thank you for your thoughts on this one, now if you'll humor me lets get back to good ol' ex nihilo<br /><br />Seeing as you assume that I am not very good at my homework (sometimes that is a just charge) allow me to give you some references of my own. Please forgive my lack of LDS material, but I think that because Christians have been studying the matter for 1800 years more than Mormons, I don't think that it is that great a crime.<br /><br />First up is Practical Christian Theology by Floyd H. Barackman. He states "The first step was God's initial creative work. This was creating the universe without using preexistent material, of which there was none (Gen 1:1, Ps 148:2-5, Heb 11:3)"<br /><br />Second up is Christian Theology by Millard J. Erickson. His writing is a little more verbose, but his premise is that with the use of the Hebrew word bara' which indicates in non poetic texts the uniqueness of God's work compared with human fashioning and the Greek word ktizo would indicate God creating out of nothing. I was considering typing out all the verses he gives to back up his point but there is a lot of them which would take up a lot of space and I am concerned you might default to the LDS stance of the Bible is good so long as it is translated correctly. Let me know if you'd like to see them<br /><br />Third up is Christian Theology: An Introduction by Alister E. McGrath. His take on the issue is as follows "In part, the idea of creation from pre-existent matter was discredited by its Gnostic associations; in part, it was called into question by an increasingly sophisticated reading of the Old Testament creation narratives. Writers such as Theophilus of Antioch insisted upon the doctrine of creation ex nihilo, which may be regarded as gaining the ascendancy from the end of the second century onward. From that point, it became the received doctrine within the church."<br /><br />Fourth and finally is Dr. Hugh Ross (an astrophysicist). I'm sorry to say that I don't have any specific site to give you, but you can probably hunt it down at www.reasons.org. He is definitely worth checking out on a lot of scientific material.<br /><br />Hopefully this helps. I doubt this will rock your world or anything but to me it seems worth a try. I hope to hear back from you, because to be honest this is fun. Talking theology is never a bad pastime.<br /><br />Barely literate anonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com