Monday, July 04, 2005

Is it Time to Declare Victory for the Mormons Yet?

I have been discussing TULIP with Leroy. We have been on T for Total Depravity of Man since we started in April. It has been since May 31 since Leroy responded. I hope he is well. I suspect, however, that he has moved on to less difficult venues. After all, Romans 5:18 and the other verses discussed proved Justification is given to all men. It is both explicit and directly to the discussion of "who is justified". Everyone is Justified by Christ, however only those who obey him will retain complete Justification once in heaven. Again, Hebrews 4:9 is likewise explicit and direct: "And being made perfect, [Jesus Christ] became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." Not exactly ambiguous.

So Leroy, if you want to push ahead, I am still here. I recently acquired several books by Mr. James White on Justification and salvation by faith alone. He doesn't address the verses in Romans, Genesis, Hebrews, 1 Timothy, John or elsewhere either. He falls back to "the entire context of scripture...must be considered." In other words, 'I can't explain why Paul writes these things which contradict my theory, but I can show you this other verse that works with my theory!'

Many is free. God is great. Godliness is the destiny of the obedient from among mankind. The Mormons have it correct.
Peace.

6 comments:

Todd Leroy said...

Hi, Bob. I've been real busy. My wife and I quit our jobs and are preparing full-time to go to Africa. I still think about you occasionally and pray when I do but the first time I have remembered about this blog and been at a computer at the same time in months was today. I used to take time at work when I had it and couldn't really do much else. Now I'm sorry but it doesn't fit in with our daily schedules and plans. I also am sorrowful to admit that I do not have a high enough persuasive ability at this time in life to convince you that your definitions of justification and grace are unbiblical and unfounded, and that your interpretation of Romans 5:18 leads to universalism. I was praying the Holy Spirit would use my words, would speak through me and pierce your heart. But you persist so I pray. In love,
Todd Leroy

Bob the Anti-Anti said...

I appreciate the comments and wish you well. While you may believe my "interpretation of Romans 5:18" leads to universalism, I would argue my literal reading of scripture, and the lack of a cogent counter exegesis, forces one to conclude Christ died for all mankind.
Again, best of luck.
Peace

Bob the Anti-Anti said...

I appreciate the comments and wish you well. While you may believe my "interpretation of Romans 5:18" leads to universalism, I would argue my literal reading of scripture, and the lack of a cogent counter exegesis, forces one to conclude Christ died for all mankind.
Again, best of luck.
Peace

Bob the Anti-Anti said...

I appreciate the comments and wish you well. While you may believe my "interpretation of Romans 5:18" leads to universalism, I would argue my literal reading of scripture, and the lack of a cogent counter exegesis, forces one to conclude Christ died for all mankind.
Again, best of luck.
Peace

Anonymous said...

If I understand your words correctly, then you are right in saying that grace is offered universally, but it is only effective for those who accept it.
I'm no expert on Calvinism, but you might be getting the T mixed up with the L. T is about man's inability to save himself, while L stands for Limited atonement, which for 5 point Calvinists means that grace is not offered to all

Hannah said...

I'm reading over the TULIP/Leroy saga. Very interesting.

I'm wondering if your Hebrews 4:9 reference in this post is typo, because I'm finding "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God" in Hebrews 4:9.

Yes, justification is through Christ, and the "work" that we do to obey him is simply to believe in him as our savior (John 6:29). Any "good actions" we do in this life are through God's sanctifying power out of thankfulness to him, not some sort of extra requirement to retain our salvation.

Though I have found your discussion interesting and much more in-depth and educated than many I have come across, your post title and "I suspect he has moved on to less difficult venues" seem a little disrespectful to Leroy and the work he has put into explaining his beliefs.